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Time (over and) Out for Manchester | Print |  Email to a friend
By Leon Newcombe   
Tuesday, 29 May 2007
Despite Tony Elliott’s assurances on this very website, the Manchester media world is not anticipating the arrival of Time Out any time soon. And perhaps more critically, the people of Manchester simply don’t need it.

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The listings format, for magazines at least, is a dead one. That’s why City Life was deposited in the big recycling bin in the sky, that’s why free magazines such as 8020 (EightyTwenty) found it impossible to gain sustainable footholds in our city.

If people want listings services they automatically look online, or pick up the free papers pushed into their palms both day and night. That way they have access to all the very latest events news, more comprehensive in scope than a weekly or monthly magazine could ever muster, for absolutely zero pence. Nothing. Gratis. Bugger all.

Faced with that freedom of availability why would anyone stump up a couple of quid?

The answer, of course, is that they won’t. If a magazine commanding the latent affection of City Life couldn’t work the trick, then it’s doubtful that a brand imported from London – one that resonates with visitors rather than the permanent population – can be a persuasive enough proposition.

Perhaps it’s time Elliott recognised that there’s an obvious reason he’s struggling to find the backers to bankroll this venture. Namely, that the people with the kind of money he’s after aren’t daft enough to part with it for a concept that’s on its last legs before it’s even been born.

If Elliott, or indeed any other publisher, is looking to break the local market they need to offer something more than an idea that’s well past its sell by date. They need to offer value. They need to offer a genuine, original reason to pick their publication up – especially if punters have to pay for it.

If they don’t have something unique to offer, then perhaps they need some Time Out to seriously re-think their plans.


Leon Newcombe works for a leading media independent in Manchester


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  Comments (30)
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 1 By 'Steely' Dan Steel, on 29-05-2007 08:53
Spot on. 
 
Furthermore, if Elliott himself was so convinced about the need for a Manchester launch wouldn't he have stumped up the cash himself by now and ended this ongoing embarrassment? He's worth £93m for God's sake.  
You have to conclude that he's being cautious for a reason - a very good reason - and that hardly communicates confidence in his product, does it?
 2 By Wilf Williams and Gile Bastow website, on 29-05-2007 17:43
Ha ha. You have spotted the obvious. This is where their plans fell to the ground! Offering something different is all it needs. How could Time-Out offer something different to make it work in Manchester when they would have to change the whole flavour of what makes Time-Out taste like it does. Manchester does need a listings magazine, but only as part of something bigger, better and more important. The whole magazine cannot be listings. That just doesn\'t cut it today. City Life proved this again and (unfortunately) again! It took a long time to die and in its various guises couldn\'t make it stack up. It wasn\'t surprising that Time-Out folded before they began. How could they possibly make a whale of a product float in such shallow water? What the people of Manchester need, is a magazine from Manchester that has the attitudes of its northern sophisticates (!) and includes listings, but houses more than simply listings. Chimp Magazine swings into action this September and will be that magazine.  
The Chimp xx 
www.chimpmagazine.co.uk  
PS Leon, which Media Independent do you work for?
 3 By Lucy, on 30-05-2007 11:14
Manchester Confidential is starting to do this more and more, it\'s turning into a proper magazine for Manchester only online.
 4 By Chris Rea, on 30-05-2007 11:42
Have to throw my hat in here and agree too. Listings mags, particularly paid for ones, are redundant in the age of the internet.  
However, Time Out could have a future in Manchester, and similar cities, if it stuck to regularly updated guides looking at the city's different cultural and social venues. These would be invaluable for tourists already familiar with the Time Out brand, while also acting as a one off 'bible' for the local community. For the regular listings the company could save time, money and face by just sticking them on their website. 
 
As for other publishers, I'd stick away from listings too - it's too much of a resource quagmire to get stuck down in and people won't repay your effort with their time and interest. Do something different. Vice has made a huge success out of doing it's own thing internationally, as has Rugged magazine. On a local level Bob magazine is free, interesting and just following its own agenda.  
 
This is the way forward I think - to be brave and produce something new.
 5 By AL Mack website, on 30-05-2007 14:59
Listings ARE the way forward, but not for print. The market is changing, no doubt Tony Elliot knows this...but flogging a dead horse is better than flogging nothing at all. 
 
8020 lasted four issues and failed because it offered nothing in the way of content (it was mostly pictures of models). City Life failed because it was boring, and badly edited towards the end. There are countless other magazines that have come, then gone. Compare them and it becomes obvious why they didn't last: no market research, and no market left.
 6 By Giles Bastow website, on 30-05-2007 15:55
I'm with Al Mack on this one, apart from the fact that I do believe listings have a place in print and on the net.We don't all have a Blackberry!  
Call me old fashioned but I like something I can hold on to! In response to Chris Rea (hmm) Bob Magazine is a quirky little number but lacks content (unless of course you think content is an in-depth review of biscuits, and page after page of advertising led editorial). 
8020 whether it was good or bad suffered from poor distribution.... 
The public will decide what they want and so far our research says Manchester needs its own magazine with info about what to see and do simple as that........
 7 By alan johnstone website, on 30-05-2007 21:33
One of my spies has just drawn my attention to this. I'd just like to correct Giles here by saying that bob has never had advertising led editorial and never will. I'll now shamelessly plug the magazine by saying that people can decide for themselves by having a look at the pdf of the new issue at www.bobmagazine.co.uk . 
It may or may not be your cup of tea but it's well-researched, passionate, 100% independent and a lot of fun to work on... biscuits n'all.  
Anyway, good luck to Giles and co with the Chimp and, if he ever decides to come to the party, to Mr Elliott too. Now let's get back to work...
 8 By Giles Bastow website, on 31-05-2007 12:32
One of your spies!!?? As I said Bob is is a quirky little number...There is room for the mag in Manchester and CHIMP supports this wholeheartedly. We don't have to debate over whether your 'Ad led' as Alan says decide for yourselves. If (as you say) you're not advertising led I must say theres a whole lot of product placement! Chimp will be joining the party In September as we have said many times! If you want to get a copy of Bob I saw one in the Sand Bar on Grosvenor St, hurry up!!!
 9 By Nimrod, on 01-06-2007 06:57
I'm guessing issue 3 of both Bob and Chimp will become collector's items....
 10 By Giles Bastow website, on 01-06-2007 10:31
Issue 4 is the collectable one. That's the issue with the centrefold of Tony Elliot mud wrestling with a Chimp on heat.
 11 By Nimrod, on 01-06-2007 10:43
Why do Chimp's promises for issue 4 seem vaguely redolent of a Lib Dem General Election manifesto?
 12 By Giles Bastow website, on 01-06-2007 11:44
You can contact us about those fears at anytime!! 
However you seem quite shy..Use your real name and we may bother to converse.
 13 By skipper website, on 01-06-2007 11:45
lets also not forget that those groovy, bohemian types at www.lecool.com are rumoured to be having a crack at the manchester market in the near future...
 14 By Nimrod, on 01-06-2007 14:04
You mean Giles Bastow is your real name? Don't they have deed polls down your way?
 15 By Giles Bastow website, on 02-06-2007 03:43
Lecool rocks. 
CHIMP 
x
 16 By skipper website, on 04-06-2007 00:51
Hey Chimps and Bobs – you’re all doomed, online or offline, if you ignore listings. Yeah, you can make a few short-term quid from some stupid London media buyers who are tiresomely tasked with reaching the ‘north west’s movers and shakers’- the holy regional, commercial, advertising grail of the mythical Manchester based high-disposable income, logo-wearing, contemporary art-buying, alessi –loving, latte-drinking, gallery-going, cool car-buying, wallpaper-subscribing, armani-wearing, coke-snorting, sneaker-collecting, dj-designering, student-shagging, gay-loving, loft-living community.  
 
But City Life didn’t die because it was a listings mag – listings were its core market and carried it from inception to death. It never sold more that 10,000 copies per issue in its entire existence – despite quoting more. Students never bought it, city centre-residents never bought it, tourists didn’t buy it.  
 
Listings ‘people’ bought it. 
 
Beard-stroking folk fans in Stalybridge bought it for the comprehensive folk listings, Chorlton-based teachers bought it for the arts listings, wannabe indie rockers in Hulme bought it to see if their ‘pay to play’ gig at Night and Day was listed. 
 
No-one else really gave a toss.  
 
City Life was the best shot this city ever had for a home-grown cultural mag – till GMG Regional screwed it over royally 1999-2000 and tried to make it ‘poptastic’ and attract ‘brands’. Ignoring Mr Beardstroker jazz-fan, who thought Mike Butler was his trustworthy musical guide and would happily pay £1.60 for his take on what Band On The Wall were programming that week, was folly.  
 
So, any publication– online/offline - le cool, itchy, bob, chimp, metropolis 80/20, brash, MM, uptown, flux etc. don’t get carried away with fashion, insight, irreverence and ‘cool’. People in Manchester just want information, not your half-assed take on culture and your intellectual posturing.  
 
Time Out – if it’s a listings mag for Manchester, let’s have it
 17 By Giles Bastow website, on 04-06-2007 10:32
Hey skipper try reading! Chimp will carry listings!
 18 By skipper, on 04-06-2007 11:46
Skipper can read and knows more about this subject than you ever will. It's not about 'carrying listings' - cutting and pasting a few lines of copy based on what some random club promoter or theatre group press officer emails you.  
 
It's about comprehensive, labour-intensive, detailed and disciplined editing, passion and subject knowledge that's required.  
 
The City Life listings editors (there was one employed for every arts classification) used to phone up even the smallest venue and ask 'what have you got coming up?' 
 
Are you lot going to do that? I doubt it.  
 
Just running some selective listings within a publication is a waste of your time and space. It won't bring in any readers nor advertisers long-term.  
 
You're either a listings magazine or your not. Time Out knows this - Chimps don't.
 19 By Mr X, on 04-06-2007 12:48
I can't believe anyone's trumpeting Manchester Confidential as any sort of force in the media in town. It's certainly not a credible source for what's on as most of its content is paid advertorial! And you can't look at the internet when you're out and about in town. Unless you trek into the Apple shop and pretend to be looking at their computers.
 20 By Nimrod, on 04-06-2007 13:39
Listing? Isn't that what a ship does just before it goes under? 
Get real Skip - listings, personal ads, once the staple of mags like Time Out, City Life, are now the province of the internet. Want to know when Distended Mucal Forebrain next play the Academy? Sam from Mars stuck in the 70's seeks WPC Cartwright to take take down his particulars? A Googlathon not a peruse of Bob the Timed Out Chump magazine is gonna be your answer. 
If these new mags are going to work they have to at least appear to define cool and identify lifestyle and happening wallpaper for an impressionable readership ready to have hipness pre-packaged and identified for them in an easily digestible form. 
I've looked at Bob and Chump's online offering and they both seem to embrace this concept, but as an (admittedly not terribly wise) acquaintance of mine used to insist on quoting on these occasions : "There's a gap in the market - but is there a market in the gap?"
 21 By Giles Bastow/Wilf Williams website, on 04-06-2007 14:51
Chimp will be phoning even the smallest venues in answer to your question Skipper. In fact our whole magazine depends on it. Chimp's listings will NOT be selective and will be comprehensive. Furthermore Chimp will be out in September whether you like it or not mate. I suggest you sit on the internet all day to find out whats happening in this city your obviously more comfortable like that. 
God bless.
 22 By Nimrod, on 04-06-2007 17:14
Give the frequency and rancour of their on-line communications, one could be forgiven for believing that the doyens of Chump magazine do little but sit on the Internet all day - still putative publications do not a heavy workload entail. 
As to "Chump's listings will NOT be selective" being a proud boast...does this mean discrete little ads detailing clandestine meetings of the Stalybridge BNP's (white) coffee mornings will nestle snugly alongside the time and location of the next East Didsbury Reg Varney On The Buses Memorobilia Treasure Hunt? Comprehensive indeed, but unfiltered and lacking a moral compass, rendering them fuck all use to man nor beast, save as as runny rectal requisite?
 23 By Giles Bastow website, on 04-06-2007 17:37
Our 'Moral Compass' is working fine thank you. We at Chimp love your ramblings, perhaps we should employ you. Why so anonymous?
 24 By Arnold Nimrod, on 05-06-2007 13:55
Ah, Giles I am not usually one to sully my pen in the murky borogroves of regional listings mags, seeing them as largely destined to be makeshift cheese toastie platters in the student bedsits of Chorlton and its environs. But, big tart that I am, you can always email me with a sufficently enticing offer and then my ramblings will be yours to freely view with scant regard - a fate I hope that the Chump's launch issue will not share at the grubby hands of Manchester's cynical media buying brigade.
 25 By Giles Bastow website, on 05-06-2007 15:56
We would love to email you however you don't leave an email address! And by the way its CHIMP.......
 26 By Arnold Nimrod, on 05-06-2007 16:36
Chimp, Chump, Cramp or Pimp magazine -it's not what is says on the masthead that counts at the end of the day, Giles, it's more the brand values that readers come to associate with you - at least that's one philosophy that marketing types trot out. My own view however is that few people would ever ask for "Bag'o'Shite' magazine in their local newsagents, so maybe your protectionism towards your abbreviated arboreal ape appellation is well-advised - though I suspect you'll always be Chump to me
 27 By Giles Bastow, on 05-06-2007 17:26
Charming.
 28 By mark garner website, on 06-06-2007 11:49
This discussion about a publishing model that no one in the past twenty five years has made money out of here in Manchester makes me grin. There is a clue in the Time Out model. London: 80,000 sales, with around 12,000 of those going to locals in the connurbation of Greater London. The rest to tourists. Great business model in a capital city with huge numbers of tourists. Not difficult to figure that Manchester isn't a Time Out model. Mr X, silly comments from you about www.ManchesterConfidential.com. Are you the same Mr X who rants on ManCon? Grow up. I am surprised you have figured the answer to the anti spam question.
 29 By Mancubist website, on 06-06-2007 13:09
Has anyone actually managed to find a comprehensive listings guide to Manchester, off or online? Fair enough you can google to find when a band's playing, but the big benefit of listings mags like Time Out and CityLife (RIP) is discovering events you didn't even realise were happening.  
 
At present people like me rely on the likes of Last.fm, Myspace, the Metro, the Guide and - god forbid - the MEN for this information. I even set up a blog to keep track of some of the more interesting things going on in the city.  
 
We don't care where the information comes from, just so long as it's available conveniently. The sooner someone - anyone - provides something comprehensive, the better.
 30 By Giles Bastow website, on 19-06-2007 00:18
Great debate......My mother always says 'If your going to stick your neck out you'll always get shat on.'  
Mancubist.....Chimp agrees, that's what we want to do and that's what we will do.

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