Steve Downes talks to Mr Murray about the past, present and future – delving into the demise of one time Liverpool hot-shop Paver Downes and touching on the allure of the ‘good looking visionary hunk‘ that is KMP’s Bill Daring.
Ok, you've been a little quiet since your glory days at Paver Downes. So what the devil you up to these days, Mr D?
Long time since I've been called quiet! Apart from having a ball, I'm now five months into a new company start-up - Juice Digital in Stockport.
And what's the thinking behind Juice Digital?
Digital marketing is the future. Few are doing it well. We are, so we'll thrive.
How are you defining digital marketing?
Using all digital channels of communication to enhance an organisation's reputation and help it to engage with it's customers.
At the moment, with budgets slashed more fiercely than Salman Rushdie at an Iranian car boot sale, digital seems to be very much the coming thing, but has it really won its spurs as a sales tool?
Yes. There are now some real effectiveness case studies on the results of Social Media Marketing. For example, Dell's use of Twitter, but I accept it's early days, but there's more and more objective data becoming available.
Tell us more about Dell's use of Twitter...
Downes today: keen Twitterer
Dell has built up 62,600 followers on Twitter. It uses Twitter to sell remaindered, end of line stock etc at discount prices to them - very effectively.
Are you a Twitterer?
Yes.
What do you Twitter about?
Well, I've got a corporate and personal Twitter (although many will batter me as that's not viewed as good practice), but I simply share information with them which I think they'll find interesting. Why? Because I want to engage with them and if they believe that me and my company are knowledgeable and trustworthy they're more likely to do business with us. Plus I learn loads of stuff.
What's your twitter handle should How-doers want to get some serious Downesloads?
juice_digital and stevejuice
Now, I 'm a big fan of MSN. I'm a convert to Facebook, but Twitter...well the jury's out. I find a lot of the content is twittering about twittering: "Oh, I've been too busy to even twitter today." You don't get faxes saying: "Sorry too busy to fax" or status updates on Face-book saying: "I have just updated my status". Why are twitterers both so self-referential and, frequently, self-reverential...?
Like everything, Twitter's evolving. Remember it only started in in a tiny way in July 2006, whereas Facebook is five years old. Just as Facebook is no longer only for teenagers' photos of being pissed in Ibiza, Twitter is no longer just an answer to: What are you Doing? (as it started), but a worldwide information sharing space. What amazes me is how generous people are at sharing their knowledge.
I know Bill Daring's involved with you at Juice, how come you two old farts presume to put yourselves at the cutting edge of this new media?
We thought the sector was short of toned, good looking hunks.
So you're recruiting?
Good looking (visionary) hunks
Seriously, I first worked with Bill in the 80s and he was a visionary then. Burgess Daring was one of the first agency's to have a Mac in Manchester and he was the first person to show me t'internet. Alongside recruiting , our strategy is growth through mergers and acquisition.
With the burgeoning number of digital media companies, what's Juice's USP?
Real software plus service excellence. To do digital marketing effectively you need the best technology available then you need to be able to exploit it to the max.
Okay, we've talked about the present and even the future, let's delve a little into the past...
OK, but now I'm over 40 the memory starts to fade...
You're now doing business in Manchester. For a long time you did business in Liverpool. What are the differences - cultural and economic - of doing business in the two cities?
Big question! Culturally Liverpool is much more of a tribe than Manchester. There are strengths and weaknesses in that. It's comparatively easier to know most of the key movers and shakers in Liverpool and be accepted if you do the right things in the right places. The downside is that it is harder for an 'outsider' to be accepted. But stick at it, give something and you'll get there.
To an outsider, Liverpool still -almost consciously - maintains its wheeler-dealer wide boy image, even among its professional service providers, is this a wise move?
It's a matter of perception that Tony. One person's wheeler-dealer is the other's nimble and adaptable entrepreneur. But Liverpool positions itself - consciously or unconsciously - as individualistic, maverick even. As in all positionings there are situations when that can be a great strength or a weakness. But, I tell you what, it won't change.
As one of the city's leading marketing communcations figures for a number of years, how did you view its tenure as the European Capital of Culture?
Certainly better than all you doomsayers predicted! Economically I think it was a success, even better when you now consider where the economy was going during its tenure. Culturally I don't claim to be a great expert, but there seemed a lot of good stuff happening. The most important issue is what has it done for its image? My view is that Internationally it has had a positive impact. More domestically, I'm not so sure. Perceptions are so ingrained here and although many people went to Liverpool and probably had a decent experience, a lot more didn't and their views are the ones that need to be targetted in the long term.
Would you have done anything different had you had an input?
I think so. I would have applied even more resources to make sure everyone in the UK outside Merseyside knew what was happening. By the way, if you remember, Paver Downes was the PR agency which supported the successful bid process. It was taken in-house when it was won.
Delving further into the past... Paver Downes had a fairly metoric rise. Off the top of my head, I imagine it was the largest marketing comminications company in Liverpool since Brunning called the bailiffs in. How did it rise so fast, outstripping incumbents like Finch, Kaleidoscope etc?
Energy and ambition. We worked and played very, very hard.
I know the boys at Finch, they played and worked hard too...
And did well. But I think our ambition was higher. We aimed for places that, with hindsight, were probably unattainable at the time. For example, we very nearly had a succesful placement on AIM in our second year, until we pulled it at the last minute. We set up a Brazilian offshoot in 1998, etc. So if we did fall short, it was still higher than most of the rest.
Now, if Paver Downes had a remarkably high profile rise, it had an equally remarkable low profile demise. Can you talk us through what happened in the dying days?
Paver: worked hard, played hard
Could write a book here (in fact I might!). But briefly, in 2006 Dougal and I had tried, and failed, in a couple of acquisitions that would have taken us into Manchester in a serious way. We re-evaluated what we wanted in life from there on which led to Dougal buying out the PR Division and the rest being sold to a local company which is now Clarity Creation. Both of those are flourishing.
Would this book cover suggestions that that the relationshop between you and Mr Paver was not what it once was when you parted company?
No, that's completely wrong. True story here. Paver Downes was started by me saying to Dougal in a Liverpool pub "fancy starting an agency ourselves?" "Yeah alright". It was ended by me and Dougal having a coffee in the Queen Square boardroom and agreeing to do something seperately. We agreed the deal in a day and had heads of agreement within a week. We both then did exactly what we said we would.
How would you feel if the view in the North West was that your abiding legacy was the creation of Dougal-stein, the archetypal scouse PR man?
Could be worse I suppose. Saddam? Seriously when you get to my age you try very hard not to think of words like legacy - it sounds too real. All I know is - I want it as much as I ever have and we're going to have a real go with Juice. Look out.
Ideally speaking, what would you like your legacy to be?
I really don't want to sound like a Miss World contestant here but, professionally, if I can leave behind a company which is famous, successful and admired.
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