In the ever-bitchy world of NW PR no-one seems to have a bad word for you. Is that because you are a genuinely nice guy or are you just very selective about who you're a c*nt to?

Hahaha - I went to see Steve Coogan live at the Manchester Apollo few weeks ago and his final item was a brilliantly funny music hall style song called "Everyone's a bit of a c*nt sometimes".  So I guess that's your answer.  Looking forward to showing this interview to my mum…

You're general air of affability has led to some accusing you of being a bit lightweight...

Brown was once an Action man

In the past you've worked with, for and replaced some of the biggest names in North West PR...Brian Beech, Phil Staniforth, John Williams, Jo Leah. If it came to it, who'd win in a scrap..?

I think John likes a bit of a ruck

And who would you rather have at your side in a pitch..?

Brian and Jo I have never worked with so it is impossible to say.  Phil was brilliant on his feet and creatively very strong.  John was very robust and supremely confident so I guess John on the right and Phil on the left.  I suspect it would take a lot of negotiation to arrange.

Is there any of them you'd regard as a mentor or is there someone you particularly admire?

Staniforth Williams (as it was then) was my first job so Phil and John were both mentors. I then worked for John and Rita Rowe at Mason Williams when it launched which also gave me some great experience. Charles Tremayne, a journalist and TV producer at Granada, was incredibly inspiring to work for.

Let's go back to when you and I first met and talk a bit about your career. Back then you were working for yourself in Quadrant's backroom and you were all cuddly and cardie-clad, you've obviously changed a hell of a lot. How do you look back at that period?

Cardies: cuddly

I next remember you at GTPR, as was. You were heading the Manc office and then swiftly jumped ship when the news broke that Beechy was coming back. Did you not fancy working with Beechy then?

It was actually Leedex GTPR and as MD of the Manchester office I had just been responsible for merging two offices after the sale of Leedex to Euro RSCG.  Brian was appointed as Group MD and I felt that that created a glass ceiling for me, I was in my thirties and decided that it was time to move on. I think it was the right decision and Beechy has continued do a great job with what is now Biss Lancaster.

You then moved to launch McCann PR. Would it be fair to say there was little frisson between you and Ms Leah, head of Weber-Shandwick, McCann's existing NW PR operation?

That's a total fiction although it was a popular rumour at the time. I was brought in to launch and build an integrated PR department at McCann Erickson which was a great opportunity. Weber Shandwick was in Manchester and McCann is in Prestbury and they wanted all their operations on site. They hadn’t worked together very much in the past so I don't think it was a lost opportunity for WS as some suggested and, because I was working with my colleagues at McCann, I didn't come into contact with Weber Shandwick at all.

It was maybe more than a popular fiction...didn't Ms Leah poach the head of PR from The Quay, the company that handled the Durex parent company business that was at the core of the Bonis start-up?

That was before I started at McCann - there really never was an issue as far as I was aware.

Whilst at McCann you won the MFI business, once the cornerstone of GTPR (et al). How did you feel when you landed that one? That must have been a bigger than usual punch the air moment..?

Check out time

So, tell the truth, did you get tipped off and that's why you jumped?

No no at all. In fact things were going well for me at McCann in terms of growth, business wins and good colleagues but I had been at the agency for seven years. I had met Rob (Harwood-Matthews) a few months earlier and we got on. TBWA wanted me to run Staniforth and I really wanted to do it.

Ok, so now we're up to date. What's it like running an operation still branded under the name of such a notorious operator as Phil Staniforth? How involved was he with your appointment and does he maintain any day-to-day involvement?

Phil stopped being involved quite a while ago, some time before my appointment. He did drop me an e-mail wishing me well.  It is the name of the company now and stands for itself.  It has a strong reputation in the North West which is a really valuable asset.  Staniforth has a great client list, great people and a real appetite.  The combination of the name and being part of TBWA makes for a strong proposition.

So who do you report to now? RHM or beyond?

I report to Robert - the Manchester operation is the bigger operation and we are part of TBWA Manchester group.  I'm also responsible for the London office so Tim Lindsay, the UK President, takes an interest in that too.

Traditionally PR has prospered in times of recession. Are you seeing that or has digital media usurped that role?

Well, PR has an important digital component (can I plug my book 'Public Relations and the Social Web' published by Kogan Page in April, available for pre-order now on Amazon?....oh I just have.)  I don't think anyone is going to entirely escape the effects of the recession but PR has the potential to be more resilient than some disciplines.

Well, yes you can. But just why is it more resilient?

The logic is that some companies, when cutting back on marketing costs, switch spend into PR because it can allow them to maintain a marketing presence with a lower overall spend. I'm not certain that there is any robust proof that this happens.

Isn't the problem with your forthcoming Kogan Page-published book going to be that is almost inevitably going to be out of date by the time it's published?

Well it was completed in the summer so some things will have moved on, but I'm still happy with the currency of the content now and there's less than four months to go before publication.

Brown: cheerful, not cheap

I'm not into knocking anyone but we aren't comparing like with like.  No one with any commercial experience could sustain that offer.  Big clients use procurement people who simply wouldn't let their marketing people buy PR at an unsustainably low level any more that they would over pay for it.

How do you feel when you see offers like that making headlines?

I don't mind.  If it works for some people then that's fine but what is on offer is not PR advice it is a bit of down and dirty copy writing.  What worries me is when Max Clifford says he is a PR consultant…

So you are not a fan of the Max Factor then?

No.

Why is that?

He's an agent/publicist and he's happy to tell porkies.  It isn't really PR at all.

What's the best bit of PR ever as far as you're concerned?

It's fresh in the mind, but the Obama campaign was incredible, particularly in its use of social media.

Clifford: not really PR

And what's the most despicable?

I think the political arena is probably responsible for that too.  Jo Moore's suggestion that the September 11th created a good day to bury bad news wasn't the finest hour for the spin doctors, was it?  I think there are worse examples still although I think it is propaganda rather than PR.

And what about the worst example of consumer PR?

I'm not a big fan of people running around dressed as creme eggs or fluffy animals although despicable would be a bit strong.

Now you're just criticising my leisure time... What about the future of the NW scene?

Well, Koan won't be the only North West agency to go under during the recession.  It is going to be challenging but every downturn has winners as well as losers.  Where companies are committed and adding real value to their clients they will succeed.
 
It seems that clients were prepared to cut spend on ethical PR very early in the downturn and Koan was a specialist so was bound to suffer.

Thank You

Future subjects for the How-Dozen interview include BJL’s managing director, Nicky Unsworth, and the eponymous David Bell, chief executive of CheethamBellJWT. If you have any questions you would like putting to them please email tonymurray37@hotmail.com. Alternatively, if you would like to volunteer or nominate someone to be the subject of a future interview please email the same address. Cheers

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